Public Accounts

The House of Commons Standing Committee on Public Accounts met to discuss the federal government's efforts to modernize its pay system, which includes replacing the troubled Phoenix system with a new system called Dayforce. The Auditor General of Canada, Karen Hogan, presented findings from her report, highlighting risks such as slow progress in simplifying pay rules, a backlog of unresolved pay issues, and a shortened project schedule. She noted that the estimated $4.2 billion cost of the new system doesn't include the costs for departments and agencies to transition to it. Arianne Reza, Deputy Minister of Public Works and Government Services, acknowledged the problems with the Phoenix system and outlined steps taken to improve pay accuracy and reduce the backlog of pay transactions. She assured the committee that the department is on track to implement the Dayforce system, emphasizing lessons learned from the Phoenix experience, including strengthened governance and phased implementation. Jacqueline Bogden, Chief Human Resources Officer from the Treasury Board Secretariat, discussed efforts to simplify HR and pay processes, noting the challenges of negotiating changes with various bargaining agents. Committee members questioned the witnesses about the cost of the new system, the timeline for resolving outstanding pay issues, and the reasons for past failures. They also discussed the importance of addressing data entry errors and standardizing HR processes. The committee explored the reasons for delays in simplifying pay rules and the impact of these delays on the overall cost of the project. The committee agreed to invite Cliff Groen, associate deputy minister, and John Ostrander, former technical lead, to answer questions on the management of benefits payment modernization and its impact. A motion to revert to a previous motion was defeated.

The House of Commons Standing Committee on Public Accounts met to discuss several reports from the Auditor General of Canada. The reports covered a range of topics, including Indigenous Services Canada's new fiscal relationship with First Nations, accessibility in federal organizations, flood hazard mapping, climate resilience of federal assets, and the federal response to avian influenza. Karen Hogan, the Auditor General, and Jerry DeMarco, the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, presented the findings. Hogan highlighted that Indigenous Services Canada had not effectively implemented or monitored its initiatives with First Nations, despite distributing over $6.5 billion in grants. She noted that the department did not know if the grants were achieving their intended outcomes, such as reducing socio-economic gaps. DeMarco discussed the slow progress in producing and sharing flood hazard maps, the gaps in oversight of the greening government strategy, and the need for better planning and documentation in response to avian influenza. He noted that the Public Health Agency of Canada purchased far more avian flu vaccine than was needed, and most of it expired. Committee members expressed frustration with the recurring issues identified in the reports. Some members questioned the effectiveness of government programs and the lack of accountability in spending. Hogan emphasized the need for departments to improve how they implement and monitor programs to achieve better results. DeMarco stressed the importance of investing in climate change adaptation measures to save money in the long run. Several committee members asked about specific issues, such as the lack of a mutual accountability framework with First Nations, the delays in addressing accommodation requests for employees with disabilities, and the oversupply of avian flu vaccines. The Auditor General and the Commissioner provided explanations and recommendations for improvement. The committee agreed to request a written breakdown of the total cost of the avian flu vaccine contract from the Public Health Agency of Canada. No specific decisions were made during the meeting, but the committee will likely continue to examine these issues in future meetings.

The House of Commons Standing Committee on Public Accounts met to discuss the Canada Infrastructure Bank's (CIB) role in Canadian infrastructure projects. Frédéric Duguay and Steven Robins from the CIB explained how the bank invests in projects to help them get started, using repayable loans instead of grants. They emphasized that the CIB aims to attract private investment and ensure projects benefit Canadians, like creating jobs and boosting the economy. Committee members questioned the CIB's progress and impact. Some expressed concerns about the number of completed projects and the amount of private investment attracted. They also asked about the CIB's relationship with the Major Projects Office and how it ensures projects align with government priorities. The discussion touched on specific projects, like the Port of Montreal expansion and investments in rural broadband, highlighting their potential economic and social benefits. Members also discussed the CIB's financial sustainability and accountability. They questioned the balance between public and private funding and the criteria for project selection. The CIB representatives defended their investment approach, emphasizing their commitment to transparency and responsible use of taxpayer money. They also noted the CIB is working to align its investment priorities with the government's goals, including supporting trade, clean energy, and housing development. The committee requested additional information from the CIB, including a breakdown of investments by province and territory. There was also a request for an analysis of the economic impact of specific projects, particularly regarding job creation and potential job losses due to outsourcing. The committee will continue to examine the CIB's role in infrastructure development and its contribution to the Canadian economy.

The House of Commons Standing Committee on Public Accounts met to discuss a follow-up report on programs for First Nations. The report looked at how well Indigenous Services Canada (ISC) has addressed recommendations from past audits about things like health care, emergency services, and safe drinking water. The Auditor General of Canada, Karen Hogan, presented the report, noting that despite increased funding, ISC has made "unsatisfactory progress" on over half of the recommendations. She pointed to issues like lack of consistent attention, unclear service standards, and not enough support for First Nations communities to manage their own programs. Michelle Kovacevic, Deputy Minister of ISC, agreed that there's room for improvement. She highlighted some progress, such as lifting long-term drinking water advisories and improving emergency responses. However, she acknowledged the need for clearer goals, better teamwork, and more support for local control. Committee members questioned why, despite increased spending, the results haven't been better. They discussed barriers like language, distance, and the need to tailor programs to fit each community's unique needs. The committee members discussed how to empower First Nations to have more say in these programs. They suggested giving communities more tools and resources to manage their own services. The Auditor General emphasized the need for a different approach, one that involves going to communities and helping them access funding, rather than waiting for them to apply. Deputy Minister Kovacevic mentioned a new organizational structure within ISC that aims to break down silos and provide a single point of contact for communities. The committee also discussed the need for better data collection and reporting to track progress and ensure that funding is being used effectively. There was a discussion about the importance of having clear standards for emergency services and ensuring that First Nations communities have access to those services. The committee agreed to continue discussing these issues and work towards finding solutions to improve the lives of First Nations people.

The Public Accounts Committee met to discuss IT contracts, focusing on the Cúram system and related cost overruns. Sébastien Lemire from the Bloc Québécois pushed for a study into IT contracts, highlighting concerns about wasted taxpayer money on projects managed by private firms. He wanted an independent public inquiry into IT contracts, including Cúram, ArriveCAN, and PrescribeIT. However, his motion was not successful in the House. He emphasized the need for transparency and accountability to ensure taxpayer money is spent wisely. Committee members debated amendments to Lemire's motion, specifically regarding access to documents and the scope of the study. Ron McKinnon and other Liberal members argued for a more focused study with witnesses, rather than a large document dump. Kristina Tesser Derksen spoke about the committee's role in audit follow-up and cautioned against partisan confrontation. She emphasized the importance of ensuring public money is spent as Parliament intended. The committee discussed the volume of documents requested and the potential burden on public servants. Ultimately, the committee voted on several amendments, including one to include a briefing note prepared by Janice Charette, Clerk of the Privy Council, for Prime Minister Justin Trudeau. Members also discussed limiting the scope of the document request to a more recent timeframe. The committee agreed to hold no more than two meetings on the study. The debate was at times heated, with accusations of filibustering and concerns about government transparency.

The House of Commons Standing Committee on Public Accounts met to discuss a report on reforms to the international student program. Karen Hogan, the Auditor General of Canada, presented the report, highlighting that while the number of new study permits decreased, there were weaknesses in the program's integrity controls. She noted that the department didn't effectively investigate or follow up on flagged risks, such as potential fraud and student non-compliance. Ted Gallivan, Deputy Minister of the Department of Citizenship and Immigration, acknowledged the areas for improvement and outlined an action plan to address the issues, including following up on fraud cases and managing visa expirations. Committee members questioned the witnesses on various aspects of the program, including fraud detection, investigation processes, and collaboration between departments. Brad Redekopp (Conservative) raised concerns about the department's failure to follow through on detected fraud. Ron McKinnon (Liberal) focused on the difference in opinion between the Auditor General and the IRCC regarding the amount of fraud cases that have been investigated. Sébastien Lemire (Bloc Québécois) questioned the department's knowledge of students with expired permits leaving Canada. A motion was introduced by Ned Kuruc (Conservative) to expand the scope of the Auditor General's audit to include coordination between departments, non-compliance by learning institutions, verification of financial documentation, and handling of fraudulent cases. The committee agreed to request that the Auditor General expand the scope of her audit. Another motion was introduced by Sébastien Lemire (Bloc Québécois) regarding IT contracts, but the meeting was adjourned before a vote could be held.

The House of Commons Standing Committee on Public Accounts met to discuss the Canadian Armed Forces' (CAF) recruitment challenges based on a report from the Auditor General. The report found that the CAF fell short of its recruitment goals, had inefficient IT systems, and struggled with training capacity. Key speakers included Andrew Hayes from the Office of the Auditor General, who presented the report's findings, and Christiane Fox, Deputy Minister of National Defence, who outlined the department's response and action plan. Committee members questioned the witnesses on topics such as recruitment targets, retention rates, diversity, and the reasons why many applicants withdraw from the recruitment process. Andrew Hayes highlighted that the CAF aimed to recruit over 19,700 new members between 2022 and 2025 but missed the mark by about 25%. He noted that many applicants dropped out, and the CAF didn't fully understand why. Christiane Fox acknowledged the recruitment challenges and said that the Department of National Defence agreed with the report's recommendations and had a detailed action plan. She mentioned improvements to the IT system and efforts to better track applicants. Lieutenant-General Erick Simoneau, Chief of Military Personnel, addressed questions about diversity in recruitment, stating that the CAF had exceeded its targets for Indigenous people and visible minorities. He also discussed the challenges of training capacity and the need for more instructors. Committee members expressed concerns about the impact of these challenges on the CAF's ability to respond to threats and emergencies. The committee agreed to report to the House of Commons on the need to modernize section 13 of the Auditor General Act to ensure unrestricted access to information. The committee will also write to the Treasury Board Secretariat, seeking a response in 90 days on this matter. The goal is to improve the CAF's recruitment and training processes to ensure it has the personnel needed to fulfill its missions.

The Public Accounts Committee met to discuss the Office of the Auditor General's (OAG) budget and operations for the upcoming fiscal year. Auditor General Karen Hogan presented the OAG's priorities, including using new technologies for audits, making government more accountable through transparency, and developing a skilled workforce. She also mentioned the need to clarify the OAG's legal right to access information for audits. Committee members questioned Hogan about the OAG's budget, spending, use of technology like artificial intelligence, and efforts to ensure contracts awarded to Indigenous businesses actually benefit Indigenous people. Hogan noted that the OAG had voluntarily returned \$2.5 million to the government as part of spending restraint efforts. Committee members also discussed challenges the OAG faces in accessing information from some government entities and Crown corporations. The committee approved the OAG's budget for the upcoming year.

The House of Commons Standing Committee on Public Accounts met to discuss a report on housing for Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) members. The Auditor General, Karen Hogan, presented findings that National Defence wasn't managing living accommodations well, with many quarters in poor condition and a shortage of housing units. She noted outdated data was used for assessing housing needs and many buildings needed major repairs. Christiane Fox, Deputy Minister of National Defence, acknowledged the issues and outlined steps being taken to address them, including developing a comprehensive framework for allocating quarters and implementing a living accommodation optimization program. Paola Zurro, CEO of the Canadian Forces Housing Agency, discussed plans to build new housing units and explore flexible housing options.

The House of Commons Standing Committee on Public Accounts met to discuss a proposed law about a debt forgiveness registry. The committee members wanted to make sure that the proposed law was clear about why some information might be kept private in the registry. They wanted to know if it was because of confidential, personal, or sensitive information. Ryan Turnbull and Kristina Tesser Derksen proposed changes to the proposed law to clarify this point. Adam Chambers agreed with the proposed changes. The committee also discussed a coordinating amendment to align the proposed law with existing legislation and avoid conflicts. Isabelle Brault confirmed that the coordinating amendment would not change the substance of the proposed law. Later, Gérard Deltell introduced a motion regarding a situation in Laval where the Canada Revenue Agency (CRA) is asking the city to pay about $1 million to a former mayor who was convicted of fraud, so he can pay taxes on the stolen funds. Deltell wants the Minister of National Revenue and the mayor of Laval to explain why the CRA is making the city pay this money. He thinks it's unfair for the city to have to pay twice for the fraud. Jean Yip asked for clarification on who Deltell wanted to invite, and Deltell confirmed he wanted the Minister of National Revenue. Sébastien Lemire suggested inviting the former mayor as well. Kristina Tesser Derksen proposed amendments to Deltell's motion. One amendment was to remove the Minister of National Revenue from the invitation list, but this was rejected. Another amendment was to invite the former mayor, but this was also rejected. A final amendment to remove the word "Liberal" when describing the government's position was accepted. Ron McKinnon asked why the city was paying the former mayor, and Deltell explained that the CRA is requiring the city to pay so the former mayor can pay his taxes on the stolen funds. The committee ultimately agreed to invite the Minister of National Revenue, officials from the CRA, and the mayor of Laval to discuss the matter. The committee voted to approve the proposed law with the changes they discussed. They also agreed to report the proposed law, as amended, to the House of Commons. The committee then moved on to discuss the motion regarding the situation in Laval. After some debate and amendments, the committee voted to invite the Minister of National Revenue, officials from the CRA, and the mayor of Laval to appear before the committee to explain the CRA's decision-making process and the government's position on the matter. The committee also briefly discussed an upcoming visit from the United Kingdom's Public Accounts Committee, who are interested in learning about Canada's experience with the Centre Block rehabilitation project. The meeting then moved into a closed session.

The House of Commons Standing Committee on Public Accounts met to discuss the Auditor General's spring reports and a proposed law about making government financial information more transparent. Auditor General Karen Hogan presented findings on three audits: the government's pay system replacement, reforms to the international student program, and RCMP recruitment efforts. Hogan expressed concerns about delays and risks in these areas, emphasizing the need for careful planning and timely action. Committee members questioned Hogan and her team about the reports, focusing on the rising costs of the new pay system, the slow processing of RCMP applications, and issues with the international student program. The committee then shifted to discussing a proposed law (Bill C-230) that would create a public registry of waived or written-off government debts. Ryan Turnbull, a Liberal member, introduced amendments to the proposed law, including raising the threshold for disclosure to $5 million. Adam Chambers, a Conservative member who initially proposed the law, suggested a compromise of $2 million. After some debate, the committee agreed to set the threshold at $2 million. They also discussed how to handle confidential or sensitive information in the registry, with members expressing concerns about potential redactions and the need for transparency. Committee members debated how to balance transparency with the protection of sensitive information. Sébastien Lemire from the Bloc Québécois raised concerns about potential political interference in decisions to redact information. Chambers suggested that if information is redacted, there should be a way for parliamentarians to know that a redaction has been made. The committee discussed whether to use the word "redact" instead of "exclude" in the proposed law to make it clear that information is still in the registry, even if it is blacked out. Due to time constraints and the need for further discussion, the committee decided to postpone the final decision on the proposed law until a later meeting.

The House of Commons Standing Committee on Public Accounts met to discuss a proposed law that would make information about large government debt write-offs more transparent. The proposed law, C-230, would require the government to create a public, searchable online database of debts of $1 million or more that have been forgiven for corporations, trusts, and partnerships. During the meeting, committee members questioned representatives from the Treasury Board Secretariat, the Department of Finance, and the Canada Revenue Agency (CRA) about the current debt deletion process and the potential impact of the proposed law. John Daley from the Treasury Board Secretariat explained the different ways debts can be deleted, including write-offs, remissions, forgiveness, and waivers. CRA representatives, including Jennifer Boudens and Charly Norris, discussed the number and value of debt write-offs, but cited taxpayer confidentiality as a reason for not disclosing the largest single write-off amount. Adam Chambers, a Conservative member, questioned this confidentiality stance, arguing that the public has a right to know about large corporate debt write-offs. Several committee members raised concerns about the cost and administrative burden of creating and maintaining the proposed online database. Ron McKinnon, a Liberal member, suggested that a regular report might be a more cost-effective way to provide the information. Despite these concerns, there was general support for the goal of increasing transparency in government debt management. The committee also voted on a motion from a previous meeting to request the government establish a public and independent inquiry into cost overruns on IT contracts, including Phoenix, ArriveCAN and Benefits Delivery Modernization, which passed with a vote of 7-0.